WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

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WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

SeanHall
Since we're talking about breaking changes in v4.0, I sent a pull request to update the WIP about MBA prerequisites.  As mentioned in the WIP, the WixMbaPrereqPackageId binder variables (and its license friends) couldn't be removed in 3.x.  I updated the plan for v4.0.  Feedback?

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

Bob Arnson-6
On 20-Oct-14 23:34, Sean Hall wrote:
Since we're talking about breaking changes in v4.0, I sent a pull request to update the WIP about MBA prerequisites.  As mentioned in the WIP, the WixMbaPrereqPackageId binder variables (and its license friends) couldn't be removed in 3.x.  I updated the plan for v4.0.  Feedback?
From the pull request:

+ * Figure out how to ensure there is at least one prereq package, at most one prereq package has a License attribute, and the type of the license attribute matches the type of WixManagedBootstrapperApplicationHost that was chosen.

An important case where this won't work: Consider having two .NET packages, one the full redist and the other the Web package. The install conditions say "if the full redist is available, use it (i.e., dvd or /layout), otherwise use the Web page). Both need licenses.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

SeanHall
Ugh. Force the user to customize the UI to disable the default URL link, and use the new ability to conditionally hide controls to show the right license?

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 20-Oct-14 23:34, Sean Hall wrote:
Since we're talking about breaking changes in v4.0, I sent a pull request to update the WIP about MBA prerequisites.  As mentioned in the WIP, the WixMbaPrereqPackageId binder variables (and its license friends) couldn't be removed in 3.x.  I updated the plan for v4.0.  Feedback?
From the pull request:

+ * Figure out how to ensure there is at least one prereq package, at most one prereq package has a License attribute, and the type of the license attribute matches the type of WixManagedBootstrapperApplicationHost that was chosen.

An important case where this won't work: Consider having two .NET packages, one the full redist and the other the Web package. The install conditions say "if the full redist is available, use it (i.e., dvd or /layout), otherwise use the Web page). Both need licenses.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

Bob Arnson-6
Which is the "default URL"? First? I suppose that would work, as long as @After is used correctly. (To be clear, this isn't a real world problem [yet] because in this case the packages are mutually exclusive and have the same license.)

On 20-Oct-14 23:54, Sean Hall wrote:
Ugh. Force the user to customize the UI to disable the default URL link, and use the new ability to conditionally hide controls to show the right license?

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 20-Oct-14 23:34, Sean Hall wrote:
Since we're talking about breaking changes in v4.0, I sent a pull request to update the WIP about MBA prerequisites.  As mentioned in the WIP, the WixMbaPrereqPackageId binder variables (and its license friends) couldn't be removed in 3.x.  I updated the plan for v4.0.  Feedback?
From the pull request:

+ * Figure out how to ensure there is at least one prereq package, at most one prereq package has a License attribute, and the type of the license attribute matches the type of WixManagedBootstrapperApplicationHost that was chosen.

An important case where this won't work: Consider having two .NET packages, one the full redist and the other the Web package. The install conditions say "if the full redist is available, use it (i.e., dvd or /layout), otherwise use the Web page). Both need licenses.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

SeanHall
Currently WixStdBA has two special controls for displaying a license (EulaRichEdit and EulaHyperlink).  The default themes for WixStdBA/mbapreq use only one of them.  That's what I meant by saying the developer will need to disable the default URL link.

Currently, the license gets set automatically when pulling in a .NET Package from NetFxExtension.  I thought it would be a good idea to figure out how to keep that working without using the binder variables.

I figure that needing to show multiple licenses is rare.  Developers can always combine all the licenses into one file, right?  They can also customize the theme.

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Which is the "default URL"? First? I suppose that would work, as long as @After is used correctly. (To be clear, this isn't a real world problem [yet] because in this case the packages are mutually exclusive and have the same license.)

On 20-Oct-14 23:54, Sean Hall wrote:
Ugh. Force the user to customize the UI to disable the default URL link, and use the new ability to conditionally hide controls to show the right license?

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 20-Oct-14 23:34, Sean Hall wrote:
Since we're talking about breaking changes in v4.0, I sent a pull request to update the WIP about MBA prerequisites.  As mentioned in the WIP, the WixMbaPrereqPackageId binder variables (and its license friends) couldn't be removed in 3.x.  I updated the plan for v4.0.  Feedback?
From the pull request:

+ * Figure out how to ensure there is at least one prereq package, at most one prereq package has a License attribute, and the type of the license attribute matches the type of WixManagedBootstrapperApplicationHost that was chosen.

An important case where this won't work: Consider having two .NET packages, one the full redist and the other the Web package. The install conditions say "if the full redist is available, use it (i.e., dvd or /layout), otherwise use the Web page). Both need licenses.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

Bob Arnson-6
I'm not concerned (at the moment, anyway) about needing to show multiple licenses or license links. I just don't see how we'd implement the scenario I described under your proposal. (To be clear, I'm all in favor of ridding us of magic variables.)

On 21-Oct-14 20:46, Sean Hall wrote:
Currently WixStdBA has two special controls for displaying a license (EulaRichEdit and EulaHyperlink).  The default themes for WixStdBA/mbapreq use only one of them.  That's what I meant by saying the developer will need to disable the default URL link.

Currently, the license gets set automatically when pulling in a .NET Package from NetFxExtension.  I thought it would be a good idea to figure out how to keep that working without using the binder variables.

I figure that needing to show multiple licenses is rare.  Developers can always combine all the licenses into one file, right?  They can also customize the theme.

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Which is the "default URL"? First? I suppose that would work, as long as @After is used correctly. (To be clear, this isn't a real world problem [yet] because in this case the packages are mutually exclusive and have the same license.)

On 20-Oct-14 23:54, Sean Hall wrote:
Ugh. Force the user to customize the UI to disable the default URL link, and use the new ability to conditionally hide controls to show the right license?

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 20-Oct-14 23:34, Sean Hall wrote:
Since we're talking about breaking changes in v4.0, I sent a pull request to update the WIP about MBA prerequisites.  As mentioned in the WIP, the WixMbaPrereqPackageId binder variables (and its license friends) couldn't be removed in 3.x.  I updated the plan for v4.0.  Feedback?
From the pull request:

+ * Figure out how to ensure there is at least one prereq package, at most one prereq package has a License attribute, and the type of the license attribute matches the type of WixManagedBootstrapperApplicationHost that was chosen.

An important case where this won't work: Consider having two .NET packages, one the full redist and the other the Web package. The install conditions say "if the full redist is available, use it (i.e., dvd or /layout), otherwise use the Web page). Both need licenses.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

SeanHall
Hmm.  I was ignoring your scenario because it's not possible to write an install condition like that.  If that functionality is added, I would expect it to be authored as one package with one payload designated as the layout package and the other designated as the download package.

How about the scenario where you want to install .NET 4.0 on XP and .NET 4.5 on Vista and later?  In this case, you would customize the theme by adding two controls, one for each license.  Each control would be conditionally shown using the same conditions as the install conditions on the packages.  You wouldn't use the new License attributes, and delete the built in license control in the theme.  Does that work?

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm not concerned (at the moment, anyway) about needing to show multiple licenses or license links. I just don't see how we'd implement the scenario I described under your proposal. (To be clear, I'm all in favor of ridding us of magic variables.)

On 21-Oct-14 20:46, Sean Hall wrote:
Currently WixStdBA has two special controls for displaying a license (EulaRichEdit and EulaHyperlink).  The default themes for WixStdBA/mbapreq use only one of them.  That's what I meant by saying the developer will need to disable the default URL link.

Currently, the license gets set automatically when pulling in a .NET Package from NetFxExtension.  I thought it would be a good idea to figure out how to keep that working without using the binder variables.

I figure that needing to show multiple licenses is rare.  Developers can always combine all the licenses into one file, right?  They can also customize the theme.

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Which is the "default URL"? First? I suppose that would work, as long as @After is used correctly. (To be clear, this isn't a real world problem [yet] because in this case the packages are mutually exclusive and have the same license.)

On 20-Oct-14 23:54, Sean Hall wrote:
Ugh. Force the user to customize the UI to disable the default URL link, and use the new ability to conditionally hide controls to show the right license?

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 20-Oct-14 23:34, Sean Hall wrote:
Since we're talking about breaking changes in v4.0, I sent a pull request to update the WIP about MBA prerequisites.  As mentioned in the WIP, the WixMbaPrereqPackageId binder variables (and its license friends) couldn't be removed in 3.x.  I updated the plan for v4.0.  Feedback?
From the pull request:

+ * Figure out how to ensure there is at least one prereq package, at most one prereq package has a License attribute, and the type of the license attribute matches the type of WixManagedBootstrapperApplicationHost that was chosen.

An important case where this won't work: Consider having two .NET packages, one the full redist and the other the Web package. The install conditions say "if the full redist is available, use it (i.e., dvd or /layout), otherwise use the Web page). Both need licenses. 

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

Bob Arnson-6
On 22-Oct-14 18:47, Sean Hall wrote:
> Hmm.  I was ignoring your scenario because it's not possible to write
> an install condition like that.
Well, I frequently do the impossible but in this case, it's definitely
possible.

> If that functionality is added, I would expect it to be authored as
> one package with one payload designated as the layout package and the
> other designated as the download package.
It's two packages in the same package group with a modified install
condition (essentially "FoundRedistExe" and "NOT FoundRedistExe").
You're talking about adding an ExePackage to pick?

> How about the scenario where you want to install .NET 4.0 on XP and
> .NET 4.5 on Vista and later?  In this case, you would customize the
> theme by adding two controls, one for each license.  Each control
> would be conditionally shown using the same conditions as the install
> conditions on the packages. You wouldn't use the new License
> attributes, and delete the built in license control in the theme.  
> Does that work?
The issue I take with that is it means everyone's creating package group
authoring for .NET. Lots of people do that today and get it wrong. And
trust me, the right detect and install conditions are only getting harder.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

SeanHall
So the install fails if the redist package doesn't pass verification, and the user has to delete it to make it work?  Not very user friendly.

If you're modifying the InstallCondition, then you must be authoring your own package.  Unless we somehow add the ability to overwrite the InstallCondition when pulling in a package.

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 22-Oct-14 18:47, Sean Hall wrote:
> Hmm.  I was ignoring your scenario because it's not possible to write
> an install condition like that.
Well, I frequently do the impossible but in this case, it's definitely
possible.

> If that functionality is added, I would expect it to be authored as
> one package with one payload designated as the layout package and the
> other designated as the download package.
It's two packages in the same package group with a modified install
condition (essentially "FoundRedistExe" and "NOT FoundRedistExe").
You're talking about adding an ExePackage to pick?

> How about the scenario where you want to install .NET 4.0 on XP and
> .NET 4.5 on Vista and later?  In this case, you would customize the
> theme by adding two controls, one for each license.  Each control
> would be conditionally shown using the same conditions as the install
> conditions on the packages. You wouldn't use the new License
> attributes, and delete the built in license control in the theme.
> Does that work?
The issue I take with that is it means everyone's creating package group
authoring for .NET. Lots of people do that today and get it wrong. And
trust me, the right detect and install conditions are only getting harder.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

Bob Arnson-6
On 22-Oct-14 19:15, Sean Hall wrote:
> So the install fails if the redist package doesn't pass verification,
> and the user has to delete it to make it work?  Not very user friendly.
No different than any other failed package.

> If you're modifying the InstallCondition, then you must be authoring
> your own package.
I'm authoring the canonical package.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

SeanHall
I really think that the feature of using the full redist package when available, and the web package as a fallback, should be in the engine.  That way during layout, it can also just download the full package.  Also the engine would take care of finding the package in the cache and automatically (well, actually the BA will probably have to permit it) fallback to the web download.

http://wixtoolset.org/issues/4183/ asks for the payload info to be separated from the package.  The way I interpret that is to designate one of the child payloads as the PackagePayload and remove all of the payload attributes from the XxxPackage element.  Then to implement the web package fallback, there would be another special payload, like WebPayload or AlternatePackagePayload.

Does that make any sense?

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 22-Oct-14 19:15, Sean Hall wrote:
> So the install fails if the redist package doesn't pass verification,
> and the user has to delete it to make it work?  Not very user friendly.
No different than any other failed package.

> If you're modifying the InstallCondition, then you must be authoring
> your own package.
I'm authoring the canonical package.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

Bob Arnson-6
On 22-Oct-14 19:50, Sean Hall wrote:
> I really think that the feature of using the full redist package when
> available, and the web package as a fallback, should be in the engine.
Maybe. I'm not sure how common it is, though, whether it's something
important/common enough to earn a spot in the engine.

> http://wixtoolset.org/issues/4183/ asks for the payload info to be
> separated from the package.  The way I interpret that is to designate
> one of the child payloads as the PackagePayload and remove all of the
> payload attributes from the XxxPackage element.  Then to implement the
> web package fallback, there would be another special payload, like
> WebPayload or AlternatePackagePayload.
That could work too. We also always have the fallback of a magic
variable, which might be appropriate for an edge case like this.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

SeanHall
Maybe if I have time to go through the cache execute code I can implement something like this.  Otherwise, since the full and redist package have the same license could you live with only being able to set the license on one package?

On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 11:47 PM, Bob Arnson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 22-Oct-14 19:50, Sean Hall wrote:
> I really think that the feature of using the full redist package when
> available, and the web package as a fallback, should be in the engine.
Maybe. I'm not sure how common it is, though, whether it's something
important/common enough to earn a spot in the engine.

> http://wixtoolset.org/issues/4183/ asks for the payload info to be
> separated from the package.  The way I interpret that is to designate
> one of the child payloads as the PackagePayload and remove all of the
> payload attributes from the XxxPackage element.  Then to implement the
> web package fallback, there would be another special payload, like
> WebPayload or AlternatePackagePayload.
That could work too. We also always have the fallback of a magic
variable, which might be appropriate for an edge case like this.

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Re: WIP 4161 - 4.x edition

Bob Arnson-6
On 10-Nov-14 19:20, Sean Hall wrote:
> Maybe if I have time to go through the cache execute code I can
> implement something like this.  Otherwise, since the full and redist
> package have the same license could you live with only being able to
> set the license on one package?
Yes. Or, if not, it's not worth the special case.

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