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It's been a while since I updated, so I grabed the latest build and installed it...
I just wanted to take a minute to say KUDOS! The new installer (metro-ized) is an awesome improvement! Nice work! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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I'd love to see the new look. Can anyone point me to some screenshots?
- Larry -----Original Message----- From: John H Bergman (XPedient) [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 8:29 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. Subject: [WiX-users] Wow! It's been a while since I updated, so I grabed the latest build and installed it... I just wanted to take a minute to say KUDOS! The new installer (metro-ized) is an awesome improvement! Nice work! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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I'll post one when I install it on my notebook this weekend.
-----Original Message----- From: Larry Fluckiger [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 3:56 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! I'd love to see the new look. Can anyone point me to some screenshots? - Larry -----Original Message----- From: John H Bergman (XPedient) [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 8:29 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. Subject: [WiX-users] Wow! It's been a while since I updated, so I grabed the latest build and installed it... I just wanted to take a minute to say KUDOS! The new installer (metro-ized) is an awesome improvement! Nice work! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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In reply to this post by Larry Fluckiger
On 02/03/2012 21:55, Larry Fluckiger wrote:
> I'd love to see the new look. Can anyone point me to some screenshots? There's a screenshot at http://www.joyofsetup.com/2012/01/22/the-new-wixtoolset-org-and-weekly-builds/ -- Bruce Cran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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On mine the Updating Gear was constantly turning, (probably by design, but I thought Id mention it).
-----Original Message----- From: Bruce Cran [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 6:02 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! On 02/03/2012 21:55, Larry Fluckiger wrote: > I'd love to see the new look. Can anyone point me to some screenshots? There's a screenshot at http://www.joyofsetup.com/2012/01/22/the-new-wixtoolset-org-and-weekly-builds/ -- Bruce Cran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
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On 03/03/2012 16:37, John H Bergman (XPedient) wrote:
> On mine the Updating Gear was constantly turning, (probably by design, but I thought Id mention it). I think it's because it's looking for files in on the Sourceforge server and not finding them (since they've been removed). -- Bruce Cran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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I did notice that I could not install 3.6.2207 unless I was connected to the internet. Does that restriction still apply, and is it going to continue to apply?
-----Original Message----- From: Bruce Cran [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 12:58 PM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. Cc: John H Bergman (XPedient) Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! On 03/03/2012 16:37, John H Bergman (XPedient) wrote: > On mine the Updating Gear was constantly turning, (probably by design, but I thought Id mention it). I think it's because it's looking for files in on the Sourceforge server and not finding them (since they've been removed). -- Bruce Cran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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On 04/03/2012 15:48, John H Bergman (XPedient) wrote:
> I did notice that I could not install 3.6.2207 unless I was connected to the internet. Does that restriction still apply, and is it going to continue to apply? Yes, it's a design feature: Wix36.exe is just the bootstrapper - it downloads everything it needs during installation, or you can use the /layout switch to get a set of files for use offline. Visual Studio 11 etc. will work this way too. -- Bruce Cran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
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In reply to this post by Bruce Cran-2
I thought there was a bug on that... it'll be fixed eventually.
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Bruce Cran <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 03/03/2012 16:37, John H Bergman (XPedient) wrote: > > On mine the Updating Gear was constantly turning, (probably by design, > but I thought Id mention it). > > I think it's because it's looking for files in on the Sourceforge server > and not finding them (since they've been removed). > > -- > Bruce Cran > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning > Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing > also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. > http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ > _______________________________________________ > WiX-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > -- virtually, Rob Mensching - http://RobMensching.com LLC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
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In reply to this post by Bruce Cran-2
Note there is a bug on WixBA that it does not support layout.
Also, you don't have to use Burn this way. Just theoption, that we chose for WiX itself. On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Bruce Cran <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 04/03/2012 15:48, John H Bergman (XPedient) wrote: > > I did notice that I could not install 3.6.2207 unless I was connected to > the internet. Does that restriction still apply, and is it going to > continue to apply? > > Yes, it's a design feature: Wix36.exe is just the bootstrapper - it > downloads everything it needs during installation, or you can use the > /layout switch to get a set of files for use offline. Visual Studio 11 > etc. will work this way too. > > -- > Bruce Cran > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning > Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing > also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. > http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ > _______________________________________________ > WiX-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > -- virtually, Rob Mensching - http://RobMensching.com LLC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/ _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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2012/3/4 Rob Mensching <[hidden email]>:
> Note there is a bug on WixBA that it does not support layout. > > Also, you don't have to use Burn this way. Just theoption, that we chose > for WiX itself. > > On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Bruce Cran <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> On 04/03/2012 15:48, John H Bergman (XPedient) wrote: >> > I did notice that I could not install 3.6.2207 unless I was connected to >> the internet. Does that restriction still apply, and is it going to >> continue to apply? >> >> Yes, it's a design feature: Wix36.exe is just the bootstrapper - it >> downloads everything it needs during installation, or you can use the >> /layout switch to get a set of files for use offline. Visual Studio 11 >> etc. will work this way too. >> Hi, will there be any kind of offline installer available? I mean a real installer that does all the necessary registry and environment operations, not the /layout switch that just drops the file structure. If not, this is a real waste of bandwidth and working time - just imagine a company with many development machines and/or VMs that all need to install WiX. So I have to download all the data over and over again ... and perhaps even wait for the download to finish. Kind regards, Dirk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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On 05/03/2012 07:04, Dirk Räder wrote:
> will there be any kind of offline installer available? I mean a real > installer that does all the necessary registry and environment > operations, not the /layout switch that just drops the file structure. /layout just gets any .cab or .msi files that the installer needs. When you run the bootstrapper without /layout it still does all the registry operations etc. but will use the local files instead of downloading them again. -- Bruce Cran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
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2012/3/5 Bruce Cran <[hidden email]>:
> On 05/03/2012 07:04, Dirk Räder wrote: >> >> will there be any kind of offline installer available? I mean a real >> installer that does all the necessary registry and environment >> operations, not the /layout switch that just drops the file structure. > > > /layout just gets any .cab or .msi files that the installer needs. When you > run the bootstrapper without /layout it still does all the registry > operations etc. but will use the local files instead of downloading them > again. > > -- > Bruce Cran Hi Bruce, thanks, this tackles my concerns. /Dirk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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In reply to this post by Bruce Cran-2
Hi Bruce, etc.
The below news is somewhat distressing for those of us who have no Internet connection at all on our development workstations and have to use others (non-development machines) to get such access. Is downloading the /layout way and then (say) moving a directory or something going to work, or does /layout change other things (registry)? If it is going to work, will the procedure be well documented? If not, what do you propose people in my sort of situation to do? (And if Visual Studio 2011 works either of those ways we're going to be in a world of hurt here ...) Keith Douglas Statistics Canada | 170 Tunney's Pasture Driveway, Ottawa ON K1A 0T6 Statistique Canada | 170, promenade Tunney's Pasture, Ottawa ON K1A 0T6 [hidden email] Telephone | Téléphone 613-951-4405 Facsimile | Télécopieur 613-951-1966 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Cran [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: March-05-12 2:43 AM To: General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! On 05/03/2012 07:04, Dirk Räder wrote: > will there be any kind of offline installer available? I mean a real > installer that does all the necessary registry and environment > operations, not the /layout switch that just drops the file structure. /layout just gets any .cab or .msi files that the installer needs. When you run the bootstrapper without /layout it still does all the registry operations etc. but will use the local files instead of downloading them again. -- Bruce Cran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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On 05/03/2012 14:01, [hidden email] wrote:
> The below news is somewhat distressing for those of us who have no Internet connection at all on our development workstations and have to use others (non-development machines) to get such access. Is downloading the /layout way and then (say) moving a directory or something going to work, or does /layout change other things (registry)? If it is going to work, will the procedure be well documented? If not, what do you propose people in my sort of situation to do? > > (And if Visual Studio 2011 works either of those ways we're going to be in a world of hurt here ...) As I understand it, /layout does nothing more than grab a copy of the files for offline use - for example the WDK 8 beta comes as a .zip that looks like it's been created by running /layout since there's wdksetup.exe and an 'Installers' directory. If you rename the directory, wdksetup.exe goes online to fetch the files. Of course it doesn't help if you want to do the download using your Mac. -- Bruce Cran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
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In reply to this post by John H Bergman (XPedient)
Other then being allowing WiX to dogfood Burn, what benefit does the WiX
installer even gain from using Burn? I thought the old Mondo UI looked just fine and it was a simpler 1 MSI story to boot. My experience with the Burn based WiX installers is that user experience is inferior relative to what it was. It doesn't seem like to me that WiX.msi needed any of the capabilities of Burn as it doesn't do things like install the .NET framework for you or chain multiple packages together. Personally, I still want my Visual Studio in ISO format and when SP1 comes out I'd appreciate a service release that contains it. I get sick of spending 20 minutes to install Visual Studio and 60 minutes to patch it. ---------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Cran" <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:43 AM To: "General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset." <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! On 05/03/2012 14:01, [hidden email] wrote: > The below news is somewhat distressing for those of us who have no Internet connection at all on our development workstations and have to use others (non-development machines) to get such access. Is downloading the /layout way and then (say) moving a directory or something going to work, or does /layout change other things (registry)? If it is going to work, will the procedure be well documented? If not, what do you propose people in my sort of situation to do? > > (And if Visual Studio 2011 works either of those ways we're going to be in a world of hurt here ...) As I understand it, /layout does nothing more than grab a copy of the files for offline use - for example the WDK 8 beta comes as a .zip that looks like it's been created by running /layout since there's wdksetup.exe and an 'Installers' directory. If you rename the directory, wdksetup.exe goes online to fetch the files. Of course it doesn't help if you want to do the download using your Mac. -- Bruce Cran ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
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In reply to this post by Bruce Cran-2
Bruce is correct. You will need to be connected to the internet to get the
executable and then run the /layout switch. The /layout switch will create a full "DVD" image locally that will not need internet access. Doing all this on a Mac was never a goal. <smile/> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:37 AM, Bruce Cran <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 05/03/2012 14:01, [hidden email] wrote: > > The below news is somewhat distressing for those of us who have no > Internet connection at all on our development workstations and have to use > others (non-development machines) to get such access. Is downloading the > /layout way and then (say) moving a directory or something going to work, > or does /layout change other things (registry)? If it is going to work, > will the procedure be well documented? If not, what do you propose people > in my sort of situation to do? > > > > (And if Visual Studio 2011 works either of those ways we're going to be > in a world of hurt here ...) > > As I understand it, /layout does nothing more than grab a copy of the > files for offline use - for example the WDK 8 beta comes as a .zip that > looks like it's been created by running /layout since there's > wdksetup.exe and an 'Installers' directory. If you rename the directory, > wdksetup.exe goes online to fetch the files. > Of course it doesn't help if you want to do the download using your Mac. > > -- > Bruce Cran > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Try before you buy = See our experts in action! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 > _______________________________________________ > WiX-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > -- virtually, Rob Mensching - http://RobMensching.com LLC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
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In reply to this post by Christopher Painter-2
1. The WiX install *does* chain NETFX 4 in because that is needed before
the WiX BA can show UI (since the WiX BA is written in WPF). 2. Dogfooding is the primary reason. 3. We save *significant* bandwidth using Burn because during normal installs it only downloads the portions of the product that you actually need. If *everyone* start using /layout those savings will be lost. <smile/> 4. The wixstdba UI is not as functional as we'd like but the web install experience is significantly better. Click download like, survive the web browser screening process (this gets better if we can get WiX signed), click "Run" and in a second the ~500kb exe is verified and running. Then you have a nice experience while the process downloads and installs only the parts you need. Admittedly, if you want a full layout, then you do "Save" and have to run another command-line. That scenario is not optimized. 5. ISOs are inferior to /layout because they do not get the built-in robust downloading of Burn. You could use a 3rd party downloader but that 3rd party download cannot verify the downloaded ISO file the way Burn will verify and retry each file. We are moving the cheese a little bit here to challenge the status quo and see if we can't make things better for advanced users and less-advanced users at the same time. My takeaway is that we may have deprioritized the /layout scenario too much and should evaluate that going into the home stretch. On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:06 AM, Christopher Painter <[hidden email]>wrote: > Other then being allowing WiX to dogfood Burn, what benefit does the WiX > installer even gain from using Burn? I thought the old Mondo UI looked > just fine and it was a simpler 1 MSI story to boot. My experience with > the Burn based WiX installers is that user experience is inferior relative > to what it was. It doesn't seem like to me that WiX.msi needed any of the > capabilities of Burn as it doesn't do things like install the .NET > framework for you or chain multiple packages together. > > Personally, I still want my Visual Studio in ISO format and when SP1 comes > out I'd appreciate a service release that contains it. I get sick of > spending 20 minutes to install Visual Studio and 60 minutes to patch it. > > ---------------------------------------- > > From: "Bruce Cran" <[hidden email]> > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:43 AM > > To: "General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset." > <[hidden email]> > > Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! > > > On 05/03/2012 14:01, [hidden email] wrote: > > > The below news is somewhat distressing for those of us who have no > Internet connection at all on our development workstations and have to use > others (non-development machines) to get such access. Is downloading the > /layout way and then (say) moving a directory or something going to work, > or does /layout change other things (registry)? If it is going to work, > will the procedure be well documented? If not, what do you propose people > in my sort of situation to do? > > > > > > (And if Visual Studio 2011 works either of those ways we're going to be > in a world of hurt here ...) > > > As I understand it, /layout does nothing more than grab a copy of the > > files for offline use - for example the WDK 8 beta comes as a .zip that > > looks like it's been created by running /layout since there's > > wdksetup.exe and an 'Installers' directory. If you rename the directory, > > wdksetup.exe goes online to fetch the files. > > Of course it doesn't help if you want to do the download using your Mac. > > > -- > > Bruce Cran > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > Try before you buy = See our experts in action! > > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 > > _______________________________________________ > > WiX-users mailing list > > [hidden email] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Try before you buy = See our experts in action! > The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers > is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, > Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! > http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 > _______________________________________________ > WiX-users mailing list > [hidden email] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users > -- virtually, Rob Mensching - http://RobMensching.com LLC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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In reply to this post by John H Bergman (XPedient)
Rob,
Regarding /layout, all developers *SHOULD* be doing it despite losing those "savings". (Assuming any savings is actually realized based on how many developers are installing the software. ) Anyone involved in the process of developing software ( especially build and release engineering ) should have mature policies regarding the ability to track and archive changes to the development environment. If I have to rebuild a build machine or developer machine I have to be able go back and reinstall all of the tools exactly the way they were originally intended. Relying on content for a web-enabled installer to be available 1,5,10 years down the road ( we still get requests to rebuild VB6 applications! ) is a horrible practice as the external dependency is outside of your control. You must keep your own archive of the tool to ensure the SLA can b met. Everyone who understands CM should be doing this. Thus /layout is not only an annoyance to me, it's an antipattern. Chris ---------------------------------------- From: "Rob Mensching" <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 9:38 AM To: [hidden email], "General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset." <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! 1. The WiX install *does* chain NETFX 4 in because that is needed before the WiX BA can show UI (since the WiX BA is written in WPF). 2. Dogfooding is the primary reason. 3. We save *significant* bandwidth using Burn because during normal installs it only downloads the portions of the product that you actually need. If *everyone* start using /layout those savings will be lost. <smile/> 4. The wixstdba UI is not as functional as we'd like but the web install experience is significantly better. Click download like, survive the web browser screening process (this gets better if we can get WiX signed), click "Run" and in a second the ~500kb exe is verified and running. Then you have a nice experience while the process downloads and installs only the parts you need. Admittedly, if you want a full layout, then you do "Save" and have to run another command-line. That scenario is not optimized. 5. ISOs are inferior to /layout because they do not get the built-in robust downloading of Burn. You could use a 3rd party downloader but that 3rd party download cannot verify the downloaded ISO file the way Burn will verify and retry each file. We are moving the cheese a little bit here to challenge the status quo and see if we can't make things better for advanced users and less-advanced users at the same time. My takeaway is that we may have deprioritized the /layout scenario too much and should evaluate that going into the home stretch. On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:06 AM, Christopher Painter <[hidden email]> wrote: Other then being allowing WiX to dogfood Burn, what benefit does the WiX installer even gain from using Burn? I thought the old Mondo UI looked just fine and it was a simpler 1 MSI story to boot. My experience with the Burn based WiX installers is that user experience is inferior relative to what it was. It doesn't seem like to me that WiX.msi needed any of the capabilities of Burn as it doesn't do things like install the .NET framework for you or chain multiple packages together. Personally, I still want my Visual Studio in ISO format and when SP1 comes out I'd appreciate a service release that contains it. I get sick of spending 20 minutes to install Visual Studio and 60 minutes to patch it. ---------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Cran" <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:43 AM To: "General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset." <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! On 05/03/2012 14:01, [hidden email] wrote: > The below news is somewhat distressing for those of us who have no Internet connection at all on our development workstations and have to use others (non-development machines) to get such access. Is downloading the /layout way and then (say) moving a directory or something going to work, or does /layout change other things (registry)? If it is going to work, will the procedure be well documented? If not, what do you propose people in my sort of situation to do? > > (And if Visual Studio 2011 works either of those ways we're going to be in a world of hurt here ...) As I understand it, /layout does nothing more than grab a copy of the files for offline use - for example the WDK 8 beta comes as a .zip that looks like it's been created by running /layout since there's wdksetup.exe and an 'Installers' directory. If you rename the directory, wdksetup.exe goes online to fetch the files. Of course it doesn't help if you want to do the download using your Mac. -- Bruce Cran ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- virtually, Rob Mensching - http://RobMensching.com LLC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
Re: Wow!
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I agree 100% with this. That is basically why I keep the entire history of WiX in my repository (diskspace isn't that expensive nowadays :) )
Best regards, Albert van Peppen Senior System Engineer Insad Grafisch b.v. Mollevite 28 6931 KG Westervoort The Netherlands Phone: *31 (0) 26 319 01 50 Email: [hidden email] Website: www.insad.nl -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Christopher Painter [mailto:[hidden email]] Verzonden: 05 March 2012 16:49 Aan: Rob Mensching; General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset. Onderwerp: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! Rob, Regarding /layout, all developers *SHOULD* be doing it despite losing those "savings". (Assuming any savings is actually realized based on how many developers are installing the software. ) Anyone involved in the process of developing software ( especially build and release engineering ) should have mature policies regarding the ability to track and archive changes to the development environment. If I have to rebuild a build machine or developer machine I have to be able go back and reinstall all of the tools exactly the way they were originally intended. Relying on content for a web-enabled installer to be available 1,5,10 years down the road ( we still get requests to rebuild VB6 applications! ) is a horrible practice as the external dependency is outside of your control. You must keep your own archive of the tool to ensure the SLA can b met. Everyone who understands CM should be doing this. Thus /layout is not only an annoyance to me, it's an antipattern. Chris ---------------------------------------- From: "Rob Mensching" <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 9:38 AM To: [hidden email], "General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset." <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! 1. The WiX install *does* chain NETFX 4 in because that is needed before the WiX BA can show UI (since the WiX BA is written in WPF). 2. Dogfooding is the primary reason. 3. We save *significant* bandwidth using Burn because during normal installs it only downloads the portions of the product that you actually need. If *everyone* start using /layout those savings will be lost. <smile/> 4. The wixstdba UI is not as functional as we'd like but the web install experience is significantly better. Click download like, survive the web browser screening process (this gets better if we can get WiX signed), click "Run" and in a second the ~500kb exe is verified and running. Then you have a nice experience while the process downloads and installs only the parts you need. Admittedly, if you want a full layout, then you do "Save" and have to run another command-line. That scenario is not optimized. 5. ISOs are inferior to /layout because they do not get the built-in robust downloading of Burn. You could use a 3rd party downloader but that 3rd party download cannot verify the downloaded ISO file the way Burn will verify and retry each file. We are moving the cheese a little bit here to challenge the status quo and see if we can't make things better for advanced users and less-advanced users at the same time. My takeaway is that we may have deprioritized the /layout scenario too much and should evaluate that going into the home stretch. On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:06 AM, Christopher Painter <[hidden email]> wrote: Other then being allowing WiX to dogfood Burn, what benefit does the WiX installer even gain from using Burn? I thought the old Mondo UI looked just fine and it was a simpler 1 MSI story to boot. My experience with the Burn based WiX installers is that user experience is inferior relative to what it was. It doesn't seem like to me that WiX.msi needed any of the capabilities of Burn as it doesn't do things like install the .NET framework for you or chain multiple packages together. Personally, I still want my Visual Studio in ISO format and when SP1 comes out I'd appreciate a service release that contains it. I get sick of spending 20 minutes to install Visual Studio and 60 minutes to patch it. ---------------------------------------- From: "Bruce Cran" <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 8:43 AM To: "General discussion for Windows Installer XML toolset." <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [WiX-users] Wow! On 05/03/2012 14:01, [hidden email] wrote: > The below news is somewhat distressing for those of us who have no Internet connection at all on our development workstations and have to use others (non-development machines) to get such access. Is downloading the /layout way and then (say) moving a directory or something going to work, or does /layout change other things (registry)? If it is going to work, will the procedure be well documented? If not, what do you propose people in my sort of situation to do? > > (And if Visual Studio 2011 works either of those ways we're going to > be in a world of hurt here ...) As I understand it, /layout does nothing more than grab a copy of the files for offline use - for example the WDK 8 beta comes as a .zip that looks like it's been created by running /layout since there's wdksetup.exe and an 'Installers' directory. If you rename the directory, wdksetup.exe goes online to fetch the files. Of course it doesn't help if you want to do the download using your Mac. -- Bruce Cran ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users -- virtually, Rob Mensching - http://RobMensching.com LLC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 _______________________________________________ WiX-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wix-users |
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